ThisOldHorn.com 

                 
Original Lacquer?  
HOME  

 

"Hey, is that original lacquer?"

 THE ISSUE

This question mostly affects the Selmer saxophones of the post war era and to a lesser extent the instruments of the American makers of the same period. The horns which retain their original lacquer tend to be valued as much as 100% higher than a re-lacquered instrument although to untrained eyes that horn is aesthetically less attractive as compared to a well refinished instrument of equal vintage.

So the question is begged, is there any reason to value more highly the horn that carries its original finish regardless of its appearance? Or, is this merely a fashion which will pass?

It is our observation that the saxophone is circumscribed by more myth, legend and fictional pseudo-science than all other musical instruments in history except maybe the violins of the Cremona period. This article seeks to give you good cause not to be taken in by those legends but rather to use good old common sense and a bit of science to aid your contemplation of a new horn.

 

HISTORY

During the period when the "Vintage" horns were manufactured -  roughly  1900 to 1975 -  it was quite common to have one's instrument, at least those that came with lacquer, relacquered at each overhaul period. This was true of saxophones as well as brass instruments. The aesthetic at that time was that instruments should be bright and shiny and maintain as new an appearance as possible. To that end the refinishing was performed by vast numbers of shops from large and well respected repair shops to local music stores. Therefore there were excellent refinish jobs applied to lucky horns and there were poor and uncraftsmanlike jobs during which the instruments were irreversibly damaged through poor surface preparation (over-buffing) and poor application of inappropriate finishes.

However, given the style of the time it is remarkable that any horns survived without being relacquered at least once if not several times.

Selmer, like everyone else during the seventies, followed the crowd to epoxy finishes and instruments from about 1975 onward wear a much more robust lacquer than their antecedents. Therefore, truly good condition original lacquers are much more prevalent on horns after #220,000. Look at pictures of post  #220,xxx horns and you will see what we mean.

 

CURRENT MARKET STATUS

As it stands today the marketplace as a whole offers a considerable premium for all saxophones retaining their original lacquer finish almost without regard for the condition of that finish, or the saxophone. Certainly, if an original example emerges in pristine condition and appearance, it is prized above all and can bring a  premium of fifty, a  hundred percent or more.

Hypothetically, lets say two Selmer Mk VI tenor saxophones are for sale. Both are from a five digit series of horns, say 80,xxx, and have fresh overhauls from a premier shop. One looks like a London street lamp, it retains perhaps 10% of its original lacquer and the engraving is obliterated by half a century of handling. In short it is flat ugly and one wonders who would want to put such a thing to their mouth. The other is a glowing thing of beauty, bright golden lacquer carefully applied to a surface carefully, even lovingly, prepared so that the engraving is completely preserved. It is, thanks to the fine overhaul and careful refinish, as close to a new horn as can be found.

Well, prepare for a bout of counterintuitive economics. The doggy old original brings $10,000 at auction while the pretty redone horn barely makes $5,000. Crazy as it sounds, that's the state of the market and only time and education will change it.

Remarkably, this attitude is not shared by owners and buyers of brass wind instruments. To the contrary, the owners of vintage trombones, trumpets and other valved horns revere those shops who can refinish a horn so as to bring back its original beauty. The market even encourages a certain amount of "customization" where braces are gold plated or a bell is custom engraved, etc. So long as the idea is aesthetically pleasing and the work well executed, it can increase the value of the instrument even beyond the actual cost of modification. 

 

THE ARGUMENTS REGARDING TONAL PROPERTIES OF MATERIALS AND FINISHES

There has been an argument flying about the musical instrument community for many years regarding whether or not there are any practical, acoustic effects imparted by one material or another from which a horn can be made or even from one finish or another. The impact on the sound of an instrument effected by it's finish has long been debated but we can report that the ship has finally sailed. Good science on both sides of the argument have reached the conclusion that the material from which a saxophone is made has absolutely no affect on the sound of that instrument. Likewise, and to an even greater extent, the finish or state of the finish have absolutely no affect on the tonal properties of that saxophone.

Now, you may not agree with this for your own reasons. We here at This Old Horn are scientists in our way of looking at things and the studies cannot be denied. Material and finish have no bearing on the sound of a saxophone. In the case of the trumpet family of instruments including the trombone, the bell is unsupported and in fact supplies a measurable amount of (science again) the sound output. The saxophone bell has no such relationship with the sound and so contributes nothing to the tone or volume of the sound.

Charlie Parker played for over a year on a Grafton plastic alto saxophone.

 

THE MYTHS 

Myth {'myth}   n : a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone.

Many myths surround the saxophone and the assertions of tonal effect are manifold in their claims.

Here are a few popular but scientifically disproven myths:

  • Silver plated horns are brighter in tone and bare brass horns are darker, or is it the other way around. Whatever, either is bogus.

  • Any coat of lacquer darkens the sound of a horn.

  • The quality or alloy of brass used in the manufacturing of the instrument help control the sound and horns of pure copper or sterling silver are vastly different in tone and timbre.

  • One should stay away from a formerly lacquered horn which has been silver or gold plated and nickel plating is to be avoided because of the brightness it imparts to the instrument.

  • Excessive buffing of the horn during refinishing can remove precious metal from the instrument resulting in a change in tone, always for the worse.

  • Precious or semi-precious stones attached at select points to the keywork or structure of the horn can tune the harmonics of the overall instrument resulting in enhanced tone and intonation.

  • A ring of nickel or silver plating added around the rim of the bell can add a "shimmer" to the sound.

  • The finish of a horn affects the sound. (This one covers and converges with many other myths.)

  • The material from which a saxophone mouthpiece is made affects the tone of the piece.

  • There is a demonstrative difference in sound - normally negative - before and after the re-lacquering of a saxophone.

We are not saying outright that these claims are untrue but, to this writer's knowledge, none of these claims have yet been supported by un-biased, independent scientific analysis or testing.

However: It is not a myth that saxophones are hideously expensive compared to other band instruments and therefore represent a substantial portion of our individual personal fortune. As such, they should offer investment value. Unless there is a large and unanticipated change in the heart of the marketplace, the original instruments offer substantially greater investment value now and in the foreseeable future.

 

DOES YOUR HORN HAVE ITS ORIGINAL LACQUER?   ARE YOU SURE?

Just a few ideas on how to determine if the lacquer on your horn is the original put on at the factory at the time of original manufacture. There are many others perhaps more accurate.

  1. Though it sounds simplistic, does it look original? Lacquers applied during the 1930's through the end of the "vintage" period, roughly 1920 - 1980, were Nitrocellulose which roughly speaking is plant fibers dissolved in nitric acid; that compound then being diffused in acetone or alcohol. It has a characteristic amber/gold color and is applied quite thin, usually by spraying. Nitrocellulose lacquer is very hard and provides good protection but being thin is subject to abrasion wear with handling. It is not, nor was it ever, intended as a long term coating. To wit:

    As published by the National Association of Band Instrument Manufacturers c. 1927
    " Lacquer is only a temporary finish and should be sold as such."


  2. Is there any sign of buffing? In preparing the horn for re-lacquering it is normal to first strip any remains of the original lacquer off the horn and then polish it to a mirror finish prior to applying the replacement coats. The polishing can be accomplished by hand or with one or more motor powered bluffing wheels. Either method takes considerable experience and poorly done can have disastrous results. The most dangerous to the instrument is motor buffing. The wheels and compounds used are quite abrasive and a rough hand can actually remove metal. The most usual victim of buffing is the engraving which, in worst cases, can completely erase parts or all of the engraving in that area of the horn. If the refinisher takes the time to carefully polish the horn by hand, a lengthy process but a very successful one, the damage can be minimized or avoided altogether. This alone then is reason enough why all re-lacquers are not equal.

  3. Look at all the feet on the key guards and post mounts. The factory stamped these out of sheet brass and did little to smooth them up so they tend to have sharp tips and edges. If they are excessively rounded or smoothed out it is a pretty sure sign of buffing.

  4. All the Selmers sold  in the US before about serial number 220,000 or so were lacquered in Paris but were engraved over here. The cutting of the engraving through the lacquer exposed bare brass in the cuts and, like all exposed brass, it tarnished and eventually formed patina resulting in the characteristic dark engraving on the Mark VI . Also, examination of true original lacquer horns will show that there are often brass corrosion "blooms" emanating from the end of many if not most of the cuts.  Again, this is a consequence of cutting the engraving through the lacquer. After about serial 220,xxx they appear  to have begun lacquering the horns after engraving so this test doesn't work.

  5. Don't be fooled by  normal handling and wear. If the saxophone is popular and played a lot, the finish will wear off (see the NABIM statement above) so fast and thoroughly that you would think there had been steel wool taken to it. Also, nitrocellulose lacquer does not adhere to the brass as well as modern epoxy based finishes and over time it flakes off of the horn surface due to oxidation underneath producing the "measles" affect we've all seen. Fact  is, if a horn is used at all and does not spend its time locked away in its case in an air-conditioned house, the lacquer will deteriorate pretty completely over 50 years or so. Occasionally there will be what is called a "closet queen" horn which has been played very little and has spent its life in the closet. They can come out of the case like new but this is so rare as to make them special relics which should be conserved by a dedicated collector or a museum.

  6. Many "original lacquer" horns are fakes. In the day anyone who could afford it had their horns re-lacquered whenever they had the pads changed. Given that convention, it is almost a miracle that there are any horns still wearing their original lacquer. One good theory is that the horns we see today are marked by a "reverse  class war" effect in that the owners of the "lesser" and truly less expensive Bueschers and Conns were probably persons of more meager means and therefore could not afford to automatically have their saxophone re-lacquered at every re-pad where the well heeled Selmer owner could. The result, which we see here at This Old Horn on a daily basis, is that there are numerous American horns with their original lacquer where the Selmers are much more rare. My guess is that at least 50% of the Selmer Mark VIs claimed to be original are,  in fact, early re-lacquers.


  7. To sum up, most or all original lacquer horns will have  most or all of the signs outlined above. True there are some closet queens that look like new. We had a #236,XXX Mark VI tenor here that is surprisingly new looking even for a 1975 horn. But, if used a lot and left out over the next 30+ years it will look the same as all those other old war horses we see all the time.
    Who knew?

    The point is that there could not possibly be the number of original lacquer horns as are displayed on sales sites such as eBay. It just wasn't the style and no one in the day ever said, "what a shame that it's been re-lacquered." Anyone who could afford it  had their horn relacquered immediately upon the appearance of wear. The "vintage warrior" look had not become popular. In fact, it didn't come along until the nineteen nineties. Prior to that time, nice and fresh looking was the American standard in high schools and colleges across the country. Certainly there were rough looking instruments preserved by professionals of the be-bop persuasion but they were few. Given what we see on eBay, we are asked to believe that every other Mark VI in existence was preserved in its original form just so that it could be sold to you. Yeah...I'm sure that's it.

  8.  As for the myth that the finish on a saxophone affects the sound, this is, and has been proven to be, absolutely untrue. Let me say that again, the finish on the outside of a saxophone, whether plated, lacquered or bare, has absolutely no influence on the sound of the instrument. The saxophone is a tapered tube and the sound pulses, or waves, which are the sound, are affected by the volume, length and taper of that tube. It does not "vibrate" and produce sound. It's all done with air.

  9. A re-lacquered, re-plated or stripped horn can play just like it did when it was new, provided that the overhaul was done well and in a craftsman-like manner. The overhaul technician can even make it play better than it has ever played before because the sax is a machine of some complexity. If he corrects any binds or misalignments in the action, puts on quality pads and floats them into perfect alignment with the key cup and adjusts the key height and timing just right, that horn will be a wonderful thing to play. However, a mediocre tech turns out, you guessed it, mediocre instruments. It's all a big smear of gray and explains why some repair shops are booked for months and  others, well they can take your work in right away if you catch my drift.

  10. WELL...IS IT?

I apologize but I must offer this piece of advice. Please, please judge a saxophone only on its individual musical merits; not on whether it has original lacquer or not. That original lacquer means nothing except that owners over the years either couldn't afford or didn't care enough for the horn to have it refinished. Belief in the mystique of the original lacquer is akin to believing in ghosts and alien abduction. It's just a way to make an ugly old horn worth more money. Do yourself a favor and don't go for the hype. I'm in the business and I make money off of original lacquer horns. It is a cultural quirk in the saxophone world that is not mirrored by any other instruments to my knowledge.

Sonny Rollins plays a nicely re-lacquered Selmer Mark VI. 'Nuf Said.

So, age brings on wear. Like us, if the horn gets lots of hard use over many years it ends up looking like hell, just like us. In most cases telling whether the instrument has ever been, in its long life, relacquered just once is almost impossible. We therefore will often cop out  and just say "we believe the lacquer to be original" rather than making a pat statement. What if we're wrong? The methods, like looking for signs of buffing on the engraving and tips of the guard mounting feet, are worthwhile but even that can fool the "expert". It would be easier to just say that all our horns are relacquered but that would very adversely affects the value. See the dilemma?

Not even microscopic examination is conclusive and, with all respect, any "expert" who says that they can, without failure, tell whether a fifty year old horn was ever relacquered or not is not worthy of the title. So, we'll report what we believe and what we know and we won't claim that the lacquer is original unless we either have determined it is to our complete satisfaction, or we know the provenance of the instrument and can prove it. Sadly we live in a litigious society and the broad difference in cash value currently seen between original and refinished instruments could be actionable. Therefore it's better to err on the relacquered side than be wrong and create a false expectation in the customer. I know I'd be pissed if it was my money.

 

CONCLUSSION

Given the arguments above, we here must respectfully disagree with the premise that saxophones retaining their original lacquer, regardless of its condition, are automatically better than a properly refinished instrument. That the former would command a premium in price is a testament to PT Barnum and the vagaries of the screwball marketplace.

We can't help but feel that the buyer who passes up a fine and carefully restored horn because it has been re-lacquered should ask themselves, am I a player or a collector. But, the collector certainly does not purchase a horn with only 20% of its lacquer remaining. Rather, they are paying ten thousand dollars plus for a pristine example for their collection caring not how it plays. Then how do the well worn original lacquer horns maintain such high prices? It can only be the myth that the original lacquer horn sounds better,...somehow. And this is absent any evidence to support that claim, and price. Truly, I once had a lady on the phone make a comment on a sax demonstration we had up on YouTube. Her comment was, "Are you certain it's original lacquer? It sounds like a re-lacquer to me."

The player who wants the horn because of its playing and musical qualities is, in our opinion, much better served by buying a properly overhauled and set up horn that will give good service for many years regardless of its finish. We, therefore, will sell lots of relacquered horns and will point out to customers the fine qualities of the individual horn, regardless of its level of originality.

 

This Old Horn, LLC
1548 Copper Creek Ct.
Florence, KY  41042
(859) 657-6341
RD@ThisOldHorn.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hit Counter